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The second beast of Revelation 13

Query for the Month


April 2018

Next up-date: May 1st 2018 (God willing).

Previous "Queries" are available. Click here to access.


This article is available as a PDF file here.    Or as a WORD doc.

Some perpetual questions ....

Is there really an immortal soul?

Do you know the difference between the "love" that is of Christianity
and the "love" that is of the world?
Click here to find out!

Click on the link for a good book on the character of our God which you can download and share amongst your friends.   It's called "Light through Darkness" and is one of the best books on this subject that I have ever read! 

In the meantime, try this site.   


Here's another great site on the character of God written in a way that's very easy to understand.

In this reply the old-fashioned words of the KJV have been modernised, and in some instances, the man-made punctuation has been altered for greater understanding.  Some of the comments are adapted from books in my library.  No recognition is given because they are not intended as authorities, but are used because they express my understanding clearly.  All the ideas expressed in this article, right or wrong, are my own.   


    Revelation 13:

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Just who and what is this beast, and what is he going to do?  Where does it differ from the first beast?



The short answer is that it is no different, except in time, for it is the modern version of the first.  Oh, and it really will be world-wide because the Catholic system was only ever piecemeal.

But to be able to answer the query fully we need to see more about this second beast, so here is the complete set of verses regarding it:

    Revelation 13:

11 And I beheld another [a second] beast coming up out of the earth [not the “sea” or peoples of Europe]; and he had two horns like a lamb, and [yet] he spoke as a dragon [like the first beast].

Let’s read that verse again:

11 And I beheld another beast [one of Satan’s nations] coming up out of the earth [a lonely place]; and he had two horns like a lamb [baby ones], and [yet] he spoke as a dragon [for he was always a wolf in sheep’s clothing, Matthew 7:15-20, even if its founders did not realise that! (Or as many do not today.) See note 1.]  

[There is no place for a nation in God’s plan for humanity – that was Satan/Nimrod’s idea.  God’s way is through family.  To be a member of a “Christian nation” at the same time is incompatible with God’s way, for Christians belong to God’s kingdom/family alone.  “You cannot serve two masters” or belong to two families, Matthew 6:24:  Colossians 1:12-13.  Therefore the phrase is an oxymoron!  We are NOT Christians first, then (a nationality) second, although many say that!  God “has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has [already] translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son”.  Colossians 1:13.  We are in the world, but not of it.  We can say, “I am a Christian and I live in a nation”, but not the other.]

12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before [in front of] him, and causes [compels by deception, for he is a liar like his father, John 8:44] the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. [He uses force (coercion) in religion, as the first beast did, and that ended in the Inquisitions whose original purpose was to keep the church pure!  Click here and here.]

13 And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven [apparently from God] on the earth in the sight of men, 14 and deceives them that dwell on the earth [they are lying wonders] by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the [first] beast [consider verse 2 of the chapter]; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image [copy] to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.  [It says, “Let’s get back to using force (coercion) in religion”, so it wants to bring the old ways back.]

15 And he had power [Satanic ability] to give life [public authority] to the image [a modern copy] of the [first] beast, that the image of the [first] beast [a third animal] should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast [that is, itself in its new form] should be killed. [It had, by popular permission, a death decree for use in religion].

16 And he [the third beast, the image] causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads [the mark of allegiance and agreement to Satan’s way]: 17 and that no man might buy or sell [through economic sanctions], save he that had the mark [the agreement], or the name [character] of the [image] beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom.  Let him that has understanding count the number of the [third image] beast: for it is the number of “a man [the article “a” has been added by the translators – see note 4.  This should read “it is the number of man”]; and his number is six hundred threescore and six [666].   [See note 5 for more on 666.]

When they looked at the description of the second beast in the context of the whole chapter from verse 1 onwards some of our pioneers came up with the understanding that it represented the nation which came into existence AFTER Papal Rome (the fifth head of the beast and second leg of statue) therefore the new nation would be the sixth head.  This makes the image of the first beast the seventh!  There have been, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, Papal Rome, [“five are fallen], and one is [today], and the other [the seventh] is not yet come”.  Revelation 17:10). 

The fifth head, the Papacy, had worked hard at its major role on the earth which was to take the place of the true church, but it was not successful and then Satan saw that it needed to be replaced.  In fact, it was that head that received the “deadly wound”, from the Reformation, which in itself did not finish its intended commission, as the Spirit tells us. 

            [Revelation 3:

1 And to the angel [leader] of the church in Sardis [1517-1833~Protestantism] write; These things says He that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know your works, that you have a name [among men] that you live, and [in My sight] are [nearly] dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found your works perfect before God.

3 Remember [think back] therefore how [and what] you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.  If therefore you shall not watch, I will come on you as a thief [in 1844], and you shall not know what hour I will come upon you.

4 You have a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy.

5 He that overcomes [himself i.e. his pride], the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.

6 He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.] 

(I suggest that you read GC 439.2 as well.)

But there is a problem with that simple (but basically correct) explanation, for earlier in the chapter it is written:

    Revelation 13:

1 And I [John] stood upon the sand of the sea [between the dry land [Paganism] and the water [the false church]], and saw a beast rise up out of the sea [i.e. Europe], having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns [three more than it has heads, but the right number for the horns], and upon his heads the name [character] of blasphemy.

[In Revelation 12:3 there are 7 crowns on the 7 heads, and this shows us that Satan was ruling the world through 7 successive state governments; in Revelation 17:3 there are no crowns at all, for there was to be no controlling power(s) over the entire world during that period (although the United States likes to think that it is the policeman and moral guide for the world today); and here in Revelation 13:1 there are 10 crowns on the 10 horns, for at that time the power will be in their hands.]

2 And the beast which I saw was [a composite beast] like to a leopard [in his body], and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion [consider Daniel 7:1-7 in reverse]: and the dragon [Satan, Revelation 12:9] gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority [and he became the “little horn” of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7, and this is repeated in the fifth head here.  There are two parts (two iron legs)] to Rome in Daniel 2:40, one of which is also represented as the horn in Daniel 7:8.  But this “beast” is MORE than just the Papacy.]

3 And I saw one of his [the complete beast’s] heads [the fifth] as it were wounded to death [it received a fatal wound which should have removed the whole animal]; and [but] his deadly wound was [later] healed [for all the previous heads remain until the end.  Daniel 7:12]: and all the world wondered [in admiration] after the beast. 4 And [in this] they [unknowingly] worshipped the dragon which gave power to the beast: and they worshipped the [whole] beast, saying, “Who is like to the beast?  Who is able to make war with him?” [It is apparently invincible, for the one seven-headed beast represents Satan’s entire kingdom on earth as shown in human nature, and is expressed in the desire of men to have a world-wide nation.]

5 And there was given to him a mouth [in the seventh head, the image beast] speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given to him to continue forty and two months. [1260 or 3 ½ years depending on your understanding as to which head, the fifth or seventh one, we are thinking of, for both have the same characteristics – their difference is their place in history.]

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name [character], and His tabernacle [His way of worship], and them that dwell in heaven. [It will be a religious power.] 7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints [to persecute them], and to overcome [silence] them [which none of the other heads of the beast had been able to do completely]: and power was given him over all [the rest of the] kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, [for they stand on the “sand” of error. Matthew 7:26.]

9 If any man have a [spiritual] ear, let him hear.

10 He that leads [or causes to go] into captivity shall [himself] go into captivity: he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword.  Here is the patience and the faith of the saints [who do not use the sword]

You may have noticed that the whole “beast” has seven heads (“five of which are fallen and one is”, Revelation 17:10)  Therefore we have always accepted this second “beast” or 6th “head”  as picturing the United States of America in its professed Protestant form from its foundation in 1776, for in prophecy a “beast [an animal]” represents either God’s or Satan’s kingdom. [Like the women dressed in white or scarlet.  Revelation 12:1 and 17:3-4].  The type of “beast” [a domestic or wild animal] in the Bible is used to describe human nature – a fighting beast to represent the rejecters of God’s grace, and a peaceful one (a lamb) to picture God’s people. The seven “heads” are the various governments which have led, or will lead, Satan’s kingdom over the centuries since Daniel’s time.  As mentioned previously, five plus one so far.  Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome and Papal Rome, and now a sixth [well-fragmented] head on Satan’s beast!  (See notes 1 and 2 again and don’t forget the “one not yet come”.)

We obviously believe that the first “beast” in this chapter was the fifth European government and that this was inspired by Satan with the emphasis on religion and not just the state.  In like manner, the second “beast” of this chapter was disguised to look like a good guy, but underneath it was really a minor “dragon” and will eventually emphasise religion too!  I mean, of course, the reference to that fact that it has two lamb-like horns in men’s eyes (which are ineffective in a young animal but indicate strength which is to come) and so it speaks as a “dragon”.  Verse 11. (We seem to overlook the fact that the horns grow as the animal ages.)  We should also note that it does not change from a lamb to a dragon (Satan cannot create, nor mutate, new life, but he can modify the old), so it was ALWAYS on Satan’s side.  This point seems to have been missed by most commentators who prefer to consider it a fallen Christian nation. 

To begin with it did NOT officially have a pope, or a king, and so looked harmless to those who sought freedom from both.  (But if you have read any of the history of individual states you will know that they have had their “popes” and even their “kings” from time to time.  It has been a very successful counterfeit, I might add, even though many of its people have tried to keep it single to God, a hopeless task, for a “leopard cannot change its spots”.  Jeremiah 13:23.  All they have succeeded in doing is in delaying the inevitable as it was growing up.

So now we have established that if it was the United States of America rising to power in those days (it says so in GC 440.2, and I believe it was) then we should recognise that that country has NEVER been a Christian nation as so many would like it to be.  Certainly, its original constitution was written by men who lives were based on Bible principles, but the First Amendment of 1791 made sure that no religion [which included Christianity] was to be favoured above another in its dealings with men. [See note 6.]

So what did it worship?  For worship is so ingrained in humanity that it is impossible for any organised group of humans not to look for a power greater than themselves to bless or to curse as events change.  In the case of this nation, its worship was focussed on what some men call “materialism” and others “the love of the almighty dollar”!  Whichever, it is still strongly in favour of gadgets and their abilities, and yearns after money as its greatest power.  But as you have read at the end of Note 3 it is now revealing that it is really working on the same principles as the French nation, and as the Spirit of Prophecy tells us, those are from the devil.

We also have these words:

    {GC 442.1}

The lamblike horns and dragon voice of the symbol point to a striking contradiction between the professions and the practice of the nation thus represented. [Consider the “American Way” and compare that with its history!] 

     {GC 578.3}

The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause “the earth and them which dwell therein” to worship the papacy -- there symbolized by the beast “like unto a leopard.”  The beast with two horns is also to say “to them that dwell on the earth, that they should [choose to] make an image to the beast;” and, furthermore, [then] it is to command [by law] all [the world], “both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,” to receive the mark of the beast.  Revelation 13:11-16. 

It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns, and that this prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy. 

But in this homage to the papacy the United States will not be alone. 

The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged her dominion is still far from being destroyed.  And prophecy foretells a restoration of her [the Papacy’s] power.  “I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” Verse 3.  The infliction of the deadly wound points to the downfall of the papacy in 1798 [not just in 1517 which was a religious declension, for this one was its political fall]

After this, says the prophet, “his deadly wound [both religious and political]  was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” 

Paul states plainly that the “man of sin” will continue until the second advent.  2 Thessalonians 2:3-8. 

To the very close of time he [Satan] will carry forward the work of deception [including through the “good” popes which are the ultimate in deception].  And the revelator declares, also referring to the papacy: “All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life.” Revelation 13:8. 

In both the Old and the New World, the papacy will receive homage in the honor paid to the Sunday institution, that rests solely upon the authority of the Roman Church.   {GC 578.3}

Thus the seventh head of the beast (religious America) will not be alone in the last days (although it will have been the instigator of the universal Sunday laws), for these two, Protestantism and Catholicism, are to be joined by a third.  “And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath”.  Revelation 16:19. 

This is the eighth and final head! 

     Revelation 17:

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other [the seventh] is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space [of time]. 11 And the beast that was, and is not [right now, for he is usually invisible, i.e. the complete beast], even he is the eighth, and is of [the character of] the seven, and goes into perdition [the Lake of Fire].

12 And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings [or religions], which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings [their crowns] one hour [a short time] with the [complete] beast. 

So where are the crowns (the Satanic power) in the last days?

    Revelation 16:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [which were everywhere in the Egyptian plague, Exodus 8] come out of the mouth of the dragon [Pagan spiritualism], and out of the mouth of the beast [Roman Catholicism], and out of the mouth of the false prophet [Protestantism].

14 For they are the spirits of devils [rebel angels], working miracles, which go forth to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 

     {7BC 983.6-7}

[Revelation 17:13, 14 quoted [ten horns/kings].] “These have one mind.” There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan's forces.  “And shall give their power and strength unto the beast.” Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanism.   {7BC 983.6}

In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God's people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah [all the Sunday keepers and the Muslims].  In this warfare the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will be the great point at issue; for in the Sabbath commandment the great Lawgiver identifies Himself as the Creator of the heavens and the earth (MS 24, 1891).   {7BC 983.7} 

    {7BC 983.5} 

What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon.  It is moved by a power from beneath [from Satan, and is one of the ten.] (Letter 232, 1899).  

     {7BC 983.3}

In the seventeenth of Revelation is foretold the destruction of all the churches [religions] who corrupt themselves by idolatrous devotion to the service of the papacy, those who have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication [false doctrines].  [Revelation 17:1-4 quoted.] 


Satan is going to work through the Protestant churches of the United States of America to compel the world to honour Sunday and disregard the LORD’s Sabbath on pain of death. 

The ten crowns on the horns of the composite beast show that in the last days all the religious powers of the world, not just Christianity, will be used by Satan as the powers controlling the nations. 

Horns are the weapons of animals and can inflict great damage!

Here is the general picture:

        Daniel 7:

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints [three times],

              and prevailed against them [twice]

22 Until  [first time]

the Ancient of days came [in 1844],   [after which it ceased for a time]

and [until]  [second time]

judgment was given to the saints of the most High [just before the second advent];                 [after which it ceased for a time]

and [until]  [third time]

the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom [soon after the third advent]                 [after which it ceased for all time]

So the second beast of Revelation 13 is Catholicism resumed with a new face and name, and geographical position!


Note 1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution  [My emphasis and additions]

The American Revolution was a colonial revolt that took place between 1765 and 1783. The American Patriots in the Thirteen Colonies won independence from Great Britain, becoming the United States of America. They defeated the British in the American Revolutionary War in alliance with France and others

 . . . starting with the Stamp Act Congress in 1765. They rejected the authority of the British Parliament to tax them because they lacked representation in Parliament . . .  [Thus it was founded by revolt and violence.]

The Continental Congress [in North America] determined King George's rule to be tyrannical and infringing the colonists' rights as Englishmen, and they declared the colonies free and independent states on July 2, 1776 [effective July 4] . . .

A combined American–French force captured a second British army at Yorktown in 1781, effectively ending the war in the United States. The Treaty of Paris in 1783 formally ended the conflict, confirming the new nation's complete separation from the British Empire . . .

Among the significant results of the revolution was the creation of a new Constitution of the United States. The new Constitution established a relatively strong federal national government that included an executive [a solo president],

a national judiciary [a Supreme Court of nine Justices], and a bicameral [two branched] Congress that represented states in the Senate and the population in the House of Representatives.[1][2]

[Note the connection and active alliance with the Catholic nation of France which had laid claim to much land in the Americas and wanted to ensure that Great Britain would not usurp it. The end of the war in America led to a revolution in France which tried to imitate the American model of Republicism or Democracy.  See note 2.]   BACK   BACK (second time)




Note 2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution  [My emphasis and additions]

The French Revolution (French: Révolution française [ʁevɔlysjɔ̃ fʁɑ̃sɛːz]) was a period of far-reaching social and political upheaval in France that lasted from 1789 until 1799, and was partially carried forward by Napoleon during the later expansion of the French Empire.

The Revolution overthrew the monarchy, established a republic, experienced violent periods of political turmoil [notably the Reign of Terror], and finally culminated in a dictatorship under Napoleon that rapidly brought many of its principles to Western Europe and beyond [even into Russia where French became the language of its ruling classes].  Inspired by liberal and radical ideas, the Revolution profoundly altered the course of modern history, triggering the global decline of absolute monarchies while replacing them with republics and liberal democracies [note this about democracies for they are inventions of the devil].[1]

Through the Revolutionary Wars, it unleashed a wave of global conflicts that extended from the Caribbean to the Middle East.  Historians widely regard the Revolution as one of the most important events in human history.[2][3][4]  [Now see note 3.]    BACK   BACK (second time)


Note 3:

  {GC 265.2}  [My emphasis and additions]

The war against the Bible, carried forward for so many centuries in France, culminated in the scenes of the Revolution. That terrible outbreaking was but the legitimate result of Rome's suppression of the Scriptures. (See Appendix. [GC687.5 for four references.])

It presented the most striking illustration which the world has ever witnessed of the working out of the papal [Satan’s] policy -- an illustration of the results to which for more than a thousand years the teaching of the Roman Church had been tending. [She goes on to apply the prophecy of Revelation 13:1-10 to this power.] 

The difference between the American model and the French one was that (at first) the American was based on the general understanding and application of Bible laws, while the French one was based solely on the will of the majority of the people which ended in a dictatorship! 

Which is being used in Democracies the world over today?  Which is being used in your country right now?  Which is being used in the United States of America right now?  BACK  BACK (second time)



Note 4:


Indefinite articles are the words 'a' and 'an.' Each of these articles is used to refer to a noun, but the noun being referred to is not a specific person, place, object, or idea. [That would require a “the”.]  It can be any noun from a group of nouns.  For example:

a Mercedes from the car lot

In each case, the noun is not specific. The Mercedes could be any Mercedes car available for purchase, and the event could be any event in the history of the world.   BACK



Note 5:   [My emphasis and additions]

What most Seventh-day Adventists do not seem to understand, (in fact, what most of the professed Christian world does not seem to understand either), is that the number “666” belongs to the image beast.  It is so applied by E G White in the following quote!

    Word to the Little Flock 019.001 [All the additions in this are in the original].

I saw all that “would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,” could not buy or sell.  [O REV.  13: 15-17.] I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; [P REV.  13: 18.] and that it was the Beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope's, and not God's Sabbath.  And all we were required to do, was to give up God's Sabbath, and keep the Pope's, and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his image. 

Please note: The number “666” is here applied to the “Image Beast” which is identified by Seventh-day Adventists as the United States of America in religious mode!  And also that it is a progressive thing – it is “made up”, or “reaches a peak”.

It appears to be “made up” when the “buy and sell” decree is enforced.  It is the image beast which we need to look at, not the original beast.  It is not Roman Catholic Europe, but “Protestant” United States of America which will be the persecuting power.  [For a thought on the ten toes of the statue see here].[1]

We are warned that in order to understand the image beast we will need to study the history of the beast, because the Protestant churches of the United States will not only be an “image” to the beast, but an image OF the beast.  This means that they will not only direct people to an act of “homage” to the beast, but that they will be a replica of it and act as it has, and still does.  BACK




Note 6: [Letters to and from Thomas Jefferson, President of USA from 1801 to 1809.   My emphasis added.]



Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:40 PM

Here's more on this subject with reference to the idea that one state might have laws differing from another state with respect to religious freedom.  The first quote will be the letter from the Danbury, Connecticut Baptist Church written to Thomas Jeffereson [sic].  The second quote will be his reply.



Among the many millions in America and Europe who rejoice in your election to office, we embrace the first opportunity which we have enjoyed in our collective capacity, since your inauguration, to express our great satisfaction in your appointment to the Chief Magistracy [i.e. the Presidency] in the United States.  And though the mode of expression may be less courtly and pompous than what many others clothe their addresses with, we beg you, sir, to believe, that none is more sincere.

Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty: that Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions, [and] that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor. But sir, our constitution of government [in Connecticut ] is not specific. Our ancient charter, together with the laws made coincident therewith, were adapted as the basis of our government at the time of our revolution.

And such has been our laws and usages, and such still are, that Religion is considered as the first object of Legislation, and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the State) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights.  And these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgments, as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore, if those who seek after power and gain, under the pretense of government and Religion, should reproach their fellow men, should reproach their Chief Magistrate [President], as an enemy of religion, law, and good order, because he will not, dares not, assume the prerogative of Jehovah and make [earthly] laws to govern the Kingdom of Christ.

Sir, we are sensible that the President of the United States is not the National Legislator and also sensible that the national government cannot destroy the laws of each State, but our hopes are strong that the sentiment of our beloved President, which have had such genial effect already, like the radiant beams of the sun, will shine and prevail through all these States - and all the world - until hierarchy and tyranny be destroyed from the earth.

Sir, when we reflect on your past services, and see a glow of philanthropy and goodwill shining forth in a course of more than thirty years, we have reason to believe that America's God has raised you up to fill the Chair of State out of that goodwill which he bears to the millions which you preside over.  May God strengthen you for the arduous task which providence and the voice of the people have called you - to sustain and support you and your Administration against all the predetermined opposition of those who wish to rise to wealth and importance on the poverty and subjection of the people [because they worship the dollar].

And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his Heavenly Kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator.

Signed in behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut.


 [The answer]         Quote

 To Messrs. Nehemiah Dodge and Others

A Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut

January 1, 1802.


The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of [state] government reach actions only, and not opinions,

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

Thomas Jefferson
President of the United States



Notice that Jefferson doesn't tell these people that their right to worship as they please is subject to the state of Connecticut, or any other state of the union.  He quotes the Federal Constitution as his authority and says their right to worship as they please is guaranteed by it.  BACK



Who wants to add (or subtract!) from these thoughts? I won't argue as I have stated, but I will publish your Scriptures so that we may review all the words of God on the subject.


Next query. To be discussed from 1st May 2018.


My question is, WHY did God allow the Bible to be written in such a way as to portray His character so inaccurately?  Or did the writers just write their own thoughts - not God's thoughts?

If so, what then about the infallibility of the Bible?


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mail to:  nonconformist@mail.com  (Cut and paste)


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