.To return to work page.

 

The European Community

Query for the Month

of

September 2016

Next up-date: October 1st 2016 (God willing).

Previous "Queries" are available. Click here to access.

 

This article is available as a PDF file here.    Or as a WORD doc.

Some perpetual questions ....

Is there really an immortal soul?

Do you know the difference between the "love" that is of Christianity
and the "love" that is of the world?
Click here to find out!
 

Click on the link for a good book on the character of our God which you can download and share amongst your friends.   It's called "Light through Darkness" and is one of the best books on this subject that I have ever read! 

In the meantime, try this site.   

 

Here's another great site on the character of God written in a way that's very easy to understand.

In this reply the old-fashioned words of the KJV have been modernised, and in some instances, the man-made punctuation has been altered for greater understanding.  Some of the comments are adapted from books in my library.  No recognition is given because they are not intended as authorities, but are used because they express my understanding clearly.  All the ideas expressed in this article, right or wrong, are my own.   


The query:

Do the feet and toes of the image in Daniel chapter two picture the divided nations of Europe after the fall of the Pagan Roman Empire in 476AD, and as such, do they represent the European Community today?  Does the withdrawal of the UK from the Community mean anything in the prophecy?

 

My response:

The feet and toes (and in particular the toes, but let’s not miss the fact that there are two feet involved too) have, in Adventist thinking, long represented the divided kingdom of Rome after 476AD, but this makes the statue to miss much of the history of the world since that time, and moreover does not match up with the particulars of the vision. 

So it’s time for a review of our understanding.

When we look more carefully at the statue, we find that the metals of which it is made are clearly representations of the future nations of the world.  (Future, that is, to Daniel.)  The one head of gold equalled Babylon; the two arms the double kingdom of Medo-Persia; the one belly (but two thighs) were a picture of Greek empire before AND AFTER its division!  We also understand that the lowering of the value of the metals as we look down the image represents the lowering of the moral values of the world over the period. 

What we have known but not emphasised is the fact that each nation controlled an increasing amount of the then-known world (the world as known to Europe and the Middle East, that is.)  In the end, the city of Pagan Rome controlled an enormous area, and the Papal portion increased this to encompass literally the whole world, advancing into the Americas and the Pacific, and even China, before its influence was cut short.     

We have no controversy up to that point, even though our normal prophetic interpretation seems to take a jump at the thighs and ignore them.  Yet in chapter eleven of Daniel, according to Uriah Smith and the majority of our leaders in the past and in the present, we have the following scenario:

    Daniel 11:

11 And the king of the south [which we have always identified as Egypt/Atheism, the rejecters of God’s authority] shall be moved with choler [anger], and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north [which we have seen to be one of the four kings who took over Egypt and Syria (Babylon) etc. but which soon became two, Egypt and Syria, south and north respectively]: and he [north] shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his [south’s] hand. 

[Since then we have been looking at (or rather, ignoring) the two “thighs”

without connecting them in our minds with these two kings! So let’s do that now.]

12 And when he [south] has taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it. 13 For the king of the north [which by this time was Pagan Rome] shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. 

14 And in those times there shall many stand up against [attempt to take over] the king of the south [Egypt]: also the robbers of your people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.

[We have sometimes considered these “robbers” to be Pagan Rome. 

Uriah Smith, Dan & Rev, p256.1 – 257.2. 

But this does not fit the facts of the prophecy, for as we read on]

15 So the king of the north [Pagan Rome] shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south [Egypt] shall not withstand, neither His [God’s] chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand . . .

19 Then he [Julius Caesar, one of the kings of the north] shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found [he was murdered in 44BC]. 20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom [Augustus, 27BC to 14AD, Luke 2:1-5]: but within few days [years] he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle [he died of old age]. 21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person [Tiberius], to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

So we have moved on into the legs of the statue.  But there are TWO of them also!  Thus we should see Pagan AND Papal Rome, not at the same time, nor quite the same in nature, but both operating as nations one following the other as with the Medes and Persians with the Papacy as part Pagan.  This then naturally leads us to the ankles, from which we turn into the two feet. 

The effective end of the Papacy’s influence being held by us to be 1798AD, the feet and toes should then be seen to be the nations AFTER that time, with an added material – the clay. (And some of the pioneers actually produced a poster of the image showing that date!)

Right now is a good time to look at the whole vision and really realise that the “stone” which we take to represent the end of the world, hits the two feet, that is, the whole world, not just Europe. 

So either the feet (not including the legs) as the divided nations of Rome are shown as taking the time from 476AD to the present (which is over 1,500 years, a disproportionate length for that part of the body), and we have overlooked the entire reign (the 1260 years) of the Papacy (which was a nation as well as church);

OR

we should revise our understanding of the prophecy.  

If we are correct in the old understanding, then the toes could represent the European Community (even though it has far more than ten nations in it, and is even considering Turkey which is outside Europe as a new one),

or we should drop that idea and consider the following statement.

    {4BC 1168.8}   Written in 1899 

A copy of which can be found in

       {15Manuscript Release 39.1-2}  Released 1990

We have come to a time when God's sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay. 

God has a people, a chosen people, whose discernment must be sanctified, who must not become unholy by laying upon the foundation wood, hay, and stubble. [My emphasis.] 

Every soul who is loyal to the commandments of God will see that the distinguishing feature of our faith is the seventh-day Sabbath.  If the [United States] government would honor the Sabbath as God has commanded, it would stand in the strength of God and in defense of the faith once delivered to the saints.  But statesmen [of it and all the nations] will uphold the spurious sabbath, and will mingle their [country’s] religious faith with the observance of this child of the papacy, placing it above the Sabbath which the Lord has sanctified and blessed, setting it apart for man to keep holy, as a sign between Him and His people to a thousand generations.

 [Thus we have the natural follow-on from the world-wide Papacy

          into a temporary world-wide confederation in the next sentence.]

  The mingling of churchcraft [religions] and statecraft [politics] is represented by the iron and the clay. 

This union is weakening all the power of the churches.  This investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results.  Men have almost passed the point of God's forbearance.  They have invested their strength in politics, and have united with the papacy.  But the time will come when God will punish those who have made void His law, and their evil work will recoil upon themselves (MS 63, 1899).   

So now we have the information that the new material, the clay with the iron of the rest of the statue, represents “churchcraft”, the religions of the world, entering into a partnership with “statecraft”, the political systems.  However, this can never last for long because while one only wants to control human bodies, the other is not satisfied unless they control both body and mind, and so religion will always strive to be on top.

There is one more point:

     in a vision of the end times we are told:-

    Revelation 17:

9 And here is the mind which has wisdom [from the Spirit]

The seven heads are [also] seven mountains, on which the woman [Satan’s favoured religion] sits.

10 And there are [or have been] seven kings [political systems, by the time of the fulfilment of this prophecy]: five are fallen [Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome and Papal Rome,], and one is [the present world power], and the other [the seventh] is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue [only] a short space.

11 And the beast that was [a worldwide power], and is not [right now], even he is the eighth [head/king], and [yet] is of [the same character as] the seven, and goes into perdition [hell-fire].

12 And the ten horns [like the ten toes] which you saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour

[a short period] with the [eighth] beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength to the [eighth] beast [at their beginning].

14 These shall make war with the Lamb [through religious persecutions], and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is LORD of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he [the angel interpreter] said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the whore sits [she was on the beast in verse 3], are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues [for the real “beast” is all the political nations of the world; it is the “heads” which identify which particular one].

16 And the ten horns [the clay (or churchcraft) of the statue] which you saw upon the beast, these shall [eventually] hate the whore [a dissolute religion], and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which you saw is that great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth [it is the Papacy which would like to rule the world]

   [So in the end there will be 10 + 1 religions mingling with the iron of the feet!]

Why do I say that the ten “horns” are a picture of the ten “toes”? 

Because this is written:

    {7BC 983.5 - 983.7}    Published 1891 and 1899  (My emphasis added)

What is it that gives its kingdom to this power?  Protestantism [which is one of the ten horns/toes], a power which, while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to Heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon [Revelation 13:11]. It is moved by a power from beneath (Letter 232, 1899).  {7BC 983.5}

(Revelation 17:13, 14 quoted.) “These have one mind.” There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan's forces. “And shall give their power and strength unto the beast.” Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanism.  {7BC 983.6}

In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God's people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah. [This includes all the religions of the world.]  

In this warfare the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will be the great point at issue; for in the Sabbath commandment the great Lawgiver identifies Himself as the Creator of the heavens and the earth (MS 24, 1891).  {7BC 983.7}

If my understanding of this is correct, then we need not look for ten literal religions (although there are ten MAJOR ones in the world), but see it as a representative figure meaning all the religions of the world.       

 

Conclusion:

The two feet and ten toes have no relationship in fact with the European nations after 476AD, but represent both the secular and religious nations of the entire world in the last days!  As we have always taught, Satan will endeavour to unite both but they will eventually fall apart as it is written.

In passing, the ten horns of Daniel 7:7-8 have three removed completely, “plucked by the roots” by the eleventh horn, so there are really only seven (plus the “little” one) which survived to the dividing of Pagan Rome in 476AD!  They cannot therefore also represent the ten toes of the last days, but they are the nations of divided Pagan Rome, the seven of them.


Who wants to add (or subtract!) from these thoughts? I won't argue as I have stated,

but I will publish your Scriptures so that we may review all the words of God on the subject.

Next query. To be discussed from October 1st 2016.

 

Next query:

    Malachi 4:5-6

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:  and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. 

Who is this person, and what does he do?

 

šššš

 

 


 

Send in your thought on this current query.

or to add your comment to the next one.

Pose a query for us to look at

    To return to Homepage.

Look in the Spiritual "Dictionary"