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Conversation #018


Revelation chapter 17


Dear Truth Seeker,

Now we can look at the last day events as described in Revelation 17.

Revelation 17

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials [of the seven last plagues], and talked with me, saying to me, "Come here; I will show to you the judgment [the end] of the great whore [the evil church] that sits upon many waters [the peoples of the earth, v15]: 2 with whom the kings of the earth [the political people] have committed fornication [by turning to Satan’s way], and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk [unable to think sensibly] with the wine [false doctrines] of her fornication."

3 So he carried me away in the spirit [in a vision] into the wilderness [an area with few people]: and I saw a woman [Satan’s religious system] sit upon a scarlet coloured beast [Satan’s political system], full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns [Satan’s kingdom again as in chapter 13, but with no crowns on the horns, or the heads, this time].

Being in the wilderness without "crowns" on heads or horns means that this "beast" and its rider did not have controlling influence in the world at the time John was seeing it.

Satan’s church is defined as being of this world (on the beast) and its people fight as the world fights. Jesus says, "My kingdom is NOT of this world," and tells us that His servants do not fight, not even to rescue Him from the cross. John 18:36.

These two conditions separate the two churches and their congregations.

Just as the invisible Christian church is made of peaceful and loving folk, so the invisible Satanic church is made up of fighting and hating people, and this creates the "great gulf". Luke 16:26. In this way we can tell where we belong!!

Unfortunately, both kinds of people are in both churches, which causes some of us a problem. We all know that there are "tares" amongst the "wheat" in God's church, but tend to forget that there are "wheat" among the "tares" also in Satan's synagogue. Matthew 13:18-30; Revelation 2:9 and 3:9. Our job as Christians on this earth is to get them all to see the difference and change over.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour [royal robes], and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls [looking attractive], having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication [wanting to get others to drink of it].

5 And upon her forehead was a name written,

MYSTERY [an unknown truth],

BABYLON THE GREAT [all the world’s religions],

THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS [corrupt "Christian" churches like herself]


Here all the world’s religions were being called to get together and "ride" on their respective "beasts" which means "get into politics" so that they may use the world's force to gain their end. But in their doing this their name (character) is exposed for all to see so that there is an opportunity for choice among the people.

You may be interested in the following Email which came to me recently regarding the Presidential election in the United States. See how the churches are calling for "Christians" to vote in the election.


******...................****** ...................******

Subject: Register to Vote ASAP!

Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:59:31 -0700 (PDT)

You have been chosen as a caring Christian to get this vital message!

The clock is ticking... on the closest presidential race in the last 40 years.

The clock is ticking... on the race that will set our moral course for the next 40 years.

The clock is ticking ... on your state's voter registration deadline.


Voter registration deadlines in most states fall between Oct. 7-Oct. 10.

Millions of Christians have not yet registered to vote, because of the plague of our day: distractions.


There is still time left for you and your friends in your virtual community. THERE IS A WEBSITE DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO ENCOURAGE CHRISTIANS TO VOTE WISELY [I have added this emphasis] ... the first step of which is to register by the deadline! The website is ......, and it is an easy place for you and your friends to visit, find your state's deadline, and register. YOU CAN ALSO SIGN UP TO BECOME AN EPATRIOT ... SOMEONE ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE POLITICAL FRONTIER OF THE 21ST CENTURY ... THE INTERNET. [My emphasis]. As an ePatriot, you can forward informative, fact-based emails to your family and friends... and help them to be equipped for November 7th.

So, take some time now... before it's too late... before you get distracted... and register to vote. The Bible clearly says in Rom. 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." GOD IS ALREADY AT WORK BEHIND THE SCENES, ESTABLISHING THE GOVERNING AUTHORITIES IN AMERICA. THE QUESTION FOR EACH OF US IS THIS: WILL HE BE ABLE TO WORK THROUGH US, AND THROUGH OUR VOTE, OR NOT? [My emphasis] If we don't register, it's like sending Him to voicemail because we are unavailable at this time.

Don't be unavailable to Him this November 7, 2000 ... which means don't forget to get registered by the deadline!!! And encourage all the Christians you know to BE AVAILABLE... and REGISTER ASAP!!!

Love in Christ,

******...................****** ...................******


We must be subject to earthly governments, for conscience' sake; and for this cause also we must pay taxes and perform every duty of that nature that is laid upon us. Romans 13:5. They may be heavy, and even unjust, but that does not warrant us in rebelling. We live on earth under their physical protection and must do what they ask of us where it does not conflict with our heavenly King's rules.

However, although we must obey the rules we are not to take any part in framing them, for we work from a different base. Christianity works by freeing men and women from their natures and forgiving them for their sins - the world works by suppressing the natures and punishing the crimes - and never can the two harmonise except they keep their place.

A Christian trying to set up laws on the worldly system would face an overwhelming conflict of interest for he or she forgives and does not punish, and a worldling trying to fit in with Christian principles would find it impossible, for they want revenge and retribution. So the call above did not originate from the God of heaven although His name is used! However,

1 John 4:1

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Note: There were approximately 100 attempts in the 50 years from 1890 to 1940 to get openly religious laws passed in the United States Congress.
I don’t know how many since then!

6 And I saw the woman [become] drunken [uplifted] with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus [because of the final worldwide persecution of Christians]: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

John wondered "How could this be? Haven’t the Christians learnt anything yet?" The beast had great power in John’s time. The Jewish authorities and the "head" of pagan Rome saw to that. The early Christians' preaching against the union of church and state was especially irritating to them for that was the basis of their society. Then, when papal Rome had taken over, the persecutions continued right through the middle ages without a break. But the Reformation came in the sixteenth century and the system of a united church and state had been exposed for what it was.

John wondered, "Were they going to go back to it again?" especially now that its name (character) was so well exposed.

"And why did the Christians allow themselves to be beaten?", he thought.

"When would they ever be victorious?"

John knew what is was like to be victorious.

1 Corinthians 15:57-58

But thanks be to God, WHO GIVES US THE VICTORY through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brothers and sisters, be you steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as you know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

He had experienced the power of his Saviour when he was thrown into a pot of boiling oil for his faith and had then been pulled out of it unharmed. He had been exiled to the island of Patmos and forgotten by men, but there had had the most wonderful experience with his Friend, and was currently writing the book of The Revelation.

When this was finished, such was his faith and trust in God that he was released from Patmos and returned to Ephesus to live out his last days into old age, the only one of the apostles not to die a violent and premature death.

7 And the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns."

Now we are told what it all means.

8 "The beast that you saw was [once in spiritual control of all the earth], and is not [right now]; and [but] shall ascend out of the bottomless pit [once more], and [then] go into perdition [extinction]: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder [and follow after Satan’s kingdom], whose names were NOT written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The words of the angel tell us the timing of the vision John was having.

The worldwide religious control had ceased temporarily, but would come back. That accurately describes the feet and toes of the statue of Daniel chapter 2, our time. The power of Satan’s kingdom exhibited through the "legs" of Rome, both pagan and papal, ceased in 1798. Since that time professed Christianity has gradually taken a place in the background while the religion of "materialism" has come to the forefront. The "almighty dollar" has taken the place of the "Almighty God". The "clay" and the "iron" have not yet gelled.

9 "And here is the mind which has wisdom," [the angel continued]. "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits."

Rome, Satan's central point on earth, sits on seven hills.

10 "And there are seven kings [the seven heads]: five are fallen, and one is [the sixth], and the other [the seventh] is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space [he won’t last long]."

Today we live under the sixth "head" with economics (materialism) as our master, looking forward to a change to the seventh. When it does come, the Protestant churches of the United States which make up its character will not last long on the world scene. Their mission is to bring into existence the eighth head, the fullness of Satan’s kingdom of church and state combined, and this will happen very quickly. Virtually overnight the people of the whole world will combine to produce the third "beast" of chapter 13, all the religions with all the governments.

11 "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth [manifestation of Satan’s kingdom], and is (of) the seven [in character], and goes into perdition."

In Revelation chapter 12:3 the crowns are on the heads of the beast. In 13:1 they are on the horns. In chapter 17 the coronation of the horns is described.

The number eight in the Bible is used of the new creation (there is an eighth note in an octave of music, but it is simply the first repeated in a higher key). Here the eighth head symbolises the new attempt at world domination by Satan by combining everything he has. A last ditch effort to take control and wipe out the Christians who stand in his way. In this effort he has a master plan.

12 "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet [no crowns on the horns]; but receive power as kings one hour [a short period] with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength to the beast [they will join in his religious section]. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb [in the person of His saints], and the Lamb shall overcome them [in the person of His saints]: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: AND THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM [this time] ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL [the stone of Daniel 2]."

These ten "kings" (when they get their crowns) are the same as the ten toes of the statue. They are the "clay" which comes into the vision at this point in time. They are literally the various religions (not churches) of the world. In the Encyclopaedia Britannica they are listed in order of size as:

1: Paganism 2: Islamic 3: Hinduism 4: Confucianism

5: Protestantism 6: Buddhism 7: Eastern Catholicism

8: Shintoism 9: Taoism 10: Judaism

Roman Catholicism is not counted as one of the ten "toes" because it was shown as one of the "legs", and therefore it is not mentioned here.

Of the worldwide union, God says,

Isaiah 8:9-15

Associate yourselves [join together], O you people, and you shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all you of far countries: gird yourselves [with a sword], and you shall be broken in pieces [ Matthew 26:52]; gird yourselves, and you shall be broken in pieces. Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, "Say you not, ‘A confederacy [church unity],' to all them to whom this people shall say, ‘A confederacy;' neither fear you their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread. And He shall be for a sanctuary [to you]; but for a Stone of stumbling and for a Rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin [trap] and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken [by Satan’s deceptions which he had power to do].

Protestantism (the 2nd beast of chapter 13) while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb and to be allied to heaven, will be the first to speak with the voice of a dragon. Moved by a power from beneath it will cause all the others to join in one great confederacy or church union which God tells us to beware of.

15 And he says to me, "The waters which you saw, where the whore sits [the beast], are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues [the people of the world]."

At this point the angel advises us that "water" is a symbol of all the peoples of the world. These folk make up the congregations of the religions as well as the populations of the world.

16 "And the ten horns which you saw upon the beast, these shall [eventually] hate the whore [the original false church], and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire [because of their anger]. 17 For God has put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled." [It is their choice because their hearts are only evil continually.]

Just as the clay and iron cannot mix, so the ten crowned horns cannot remain long in harmony with the beast. When the sign of the Son of man, and the Ten Commandments, appear in the sky, the people will realise too late that they have been following false teachers. Their anger will turn them against the leaders of their religions and they will cease to persecute God’s people and begin to destroy their own clergy.

"Babylon", "Great Babylon", will fall as Jesus Christ arrives to claim His own.

18 "And the woman which you saw is that great city [known symbolically as ‘Babylon’], which reigns over the kings of the earth."

Of course, none of this is the Lord’s doing. He does not control the people of the world or their religious leaders. But He has continually told us that they who are false teachers persecute others for their faith, and at the time shown in this vision this is what has been happening worldwide, so it is plain to see who is on which side.

Christ has said, "If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you." John 15:20. There is no greater evidence that Satan is working than that those who profess to be sanctified to God's service persecute their fellow beings because they do not believe the same doctrine that they themselves accept. These will often rush with fury against God's people, stating as true that which they know to be untrue. Thus they show that they are inspired by him who is an accuser of the brethren, a liar and a murderer of the saints of God. John 8:44; Revelation 12:10.

The Son of God’s last words to those who still live in spiritual Babylon are shown below. And their response ...

Jeremiah 51:6-10

"Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; He will render to her a recompense." Babylon has been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. Babylon [the religions and their clergy] is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl [weep] for her; take balm [medicine] for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

"We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country [the country of heaven]: for her judgment reaches to heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies."

"The LORD has brought forth our righteousness [as a free gift]: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God."

Let us!

All these things must take place before the second coming, and they will require time, so Jesus will not be returning tomorrow. In the meantime we should be warning all who want to know what is going to happen and why.

Bye for now,


P. S. Have a look at the diagram of "who sits on who".




On to Conversation #019

To the reader,

If there is anything not clear to you as you read my answer, please feel free to mail me and ask about it. I promise not to send you anything but a direct answer to your question. I won't argue about it, just share with you what I have seen.

I won't ask you to join a new church or offshoot either!

Click here to contact me.


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"Horns" and "Toes"

The ten "toes"of Daniel 2 are the same as the ten "horns"
of Revelation 17.


The ten horns of Daniel 7 are on the head of the beast, and THEN another one comes up among them. Therefore he, the eighth horn, appears AFTER they are in existence.

Daniel 7:8

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 7:23-26

Thus he said, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise AFTER them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three [of the ten] kings. [That leaves only seven.]

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High [with religious persecutions], and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit [in 1844], and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it to the end."

This puts the papacy in existence at the judgment of 1844 with only seven of the ten horns.

We know that the ten horns in the vision of Daniel 7 represent the ten nations of Europe in the time of the pagan Roman empire, three of which are totally uprooted by the emerging papacy. Therefore in the last days the TEN horns of Daniel 7 do not exist, only SEVEN of them. They cannot be the same as the ten horns of Revelation 17.

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