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Conversation #015


Understanding Daniel 2


Dear Truth Seeker,

To correctly interpret the ten horns of Revelation chapter 17 we need first to go back to the basic prophetic vision of the whole of future events - the image or statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel chapter 2. If our interpretation of any other future event does not fit this pattern then it is probably not correct.

Daniel 2

31 You, O king, saw [in your dream], and behold a great image [a statue]. This great image [of a fighting man], whose brightness was excellent, stood before you; and the form thereof was terrible [awesome].

32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 his legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

These metals represent the various ruling states or governments of Satan’s kingdom in this world.

34 You saw [in your vision] till that a stone was cut out [from a mountain in the background, v45] without hands [you didn’t see who did it], which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold [the main body of the statue], broken to pieces together [they all existed till this time, but each had its own moment of power], and [they] became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them [from that moment on]:

and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain [a second one], and filled the whole earth [in place of the metals - i.e. in place of Satan’s kingdom].

36 This is the dream; and we will tell THE INTERPRETATION thereof before the king.

37 You, O king, are a king of kings: for the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And WHEREVER THE CHILDREN OF MEN DWELL, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven has He given into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all.

You are this head of gold.

So the one gold head represented the king and kingdom of Babylon which ruled all the then civilised world around 604BC.

39 And after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you,

Babylon was conquered by a portion of its own kingdom, the Medes and the Persians in 538BC, who then extended the kingdom into India and parts of Asia. From then on the kingdom of Satan was represented by TWO portions, in this case, the arms. In Daniel 7:5 they are shown as the "bear" which comes up one side first, but then the other takes over. In Daniel 8:3 by two horns on a ram.

and another third kingdom of brass [took over after that], which shall bear rule OVER ALL THE EARTH.

Medo-Persia was in its turn conquered by Greece in 331BC which brought Europe and the Mediterranean into the picture - all the then civilised world was increasing. Greece was at first apparently a SINGLE nation or state under Alexander the Great, but Daniel 11:1-6 shows that after his death it then split into four, and then merged into two - the thighs of the statue, Daniel 2:32.

These became known as the "king of the north" and the "king of the south": again, of the whole world.

40 And the fourth kingdom [the legs, v33] shall be strong as iron;

the spiritual value (morals) of the kingdom would decline (gold to iron), but the strength (physical power) would increase:

forasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and subdues all things: and as iron that breaks all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

The city of Rome took over the Greek empire in 168BC and ruled the world because the literal iron age had overtaken the bronze (brass) age and their weapons were that much stronger, just as their warlike minds were more dedicated than their fellows. They extended the kingdom to include England and parts of Africa.

The TWO "legs" of Satan’s kingdom are apparently identical, but are actually left and right. One was a state with its religion in the background, known as Paganism or "the king of the south" (a branch of it is called "patriotism"), which is still the largest religion in the world. We generally know it now as democracy or republicanism (atheism, i.e. government without God).

The other "leg" was a government ruled (controlled) by a church.

We recognise both of them today in history as pagan and papal Rome.

Because church and state are both creations of Satan, the "legs" did the same work, but from different bases. Pagan Rome ruled from 168BC to 538AD, then there was a switch to the papal system from 538 to 1798AD. But BOTH persecuted Christians and fought against God’s way of doing things, and they still do.

41 And whereas you saw the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided;

As we round the ankles of the statue (after 1798) a new element is introduced which is NOT A METAL . The feet are THE LAST part of Satan’s kingdom and they are distinguished by this new material not seen in action before. The proportion of each is not mentioned but we can assume that they are nearly equal. This makes for great instability for the statue and therefore the feet become the focal point of the vision.

The clay is described in the Bible thus:

Jeremiah 18:1-10

The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, "Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear [and see] My words."

Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he [the potter] wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he [squashed it down and] made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? says the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you [My CHURCH/STATE] in My hand, O house of Israel."

"[And] at what instant [when] I shall speak concerning A NATION, and concerning a kingdom [a state/church], to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; if that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them. [On the other hand] and at what instant [when] I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; if it do evil in My sight, that it obey not My voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them."

Isaiah 64:8

But now, O LORD, You are our Father; we are the clay, and You our potter; and we all are the work of Your hand.

Here we see that there are two kinds of clay - good and bad. God’s church and Satan’s church. In the Revelation they are seen as a "woman" clothed with the sun (in the white robe of righteousness) and a "woman" in scarlet clothes. Revelation 12:1 and 17:4. In Nebuchadnezzar’s vision the clay is "miry" (v43), defined by David as not a good thing! Which is as it should be seeing the vision is a picture of Satan’s kingdom on earth.

Psalm 40:1-2

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. I waited patiently for the LORD; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the MIRY [dirty, swampy, sticky] clay, and set my feet upon a Rock, and established my goings.

Here the "clay" is something to be rescued from! And so it is in the feet and toes, for there the "clay" represents the RELIGIONS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Not just professed Christianity, but ALL the religions and ALL the states of the civilised world are here represented. After the end of papal Rome’s worldwide dominion (1798), the whole globe of church/state combinations has come into the picture and is correctly described in the following words.

Romans 9:20-21

But, O man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, "Why have You made me thus?" Has not the Potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour?

Isaiah 45:9

Woe to him that strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth [on equal terms]. Shall the clay say to him that fashions it, "What make you? [I want to know my future]" Or your work [say of its creator], "He has no hands [no ability, no place in this world]?"

This is surely how the majority of the people of the world treat the God of heaven today.

[Daniel continued] but there shall be in it [Satan’s kingdom] of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with miry clay.

Here God tells us that the last days of history will be distinguished by the wet clay joining with the iron for a while. WORLDWIDE, the religions and states will combine, but as the "clay" dries out so the combination will split apart. It is an unnatural union in the first place, (God has always said keep church and state separate), for one will ALWAYS strive to overcome the other. Satan’s kingdom is based on each individual (and therefore each group) wanting to be "top dog". "I will be like the Most High" is the greatest boast. Isaiah 14:14.

42 And as the toes of the feet [the VERY LAST bit of the statue] were [also] part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom [of Satan at the very end] shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas you saw iron mixed with miry clay, they [the church/clay religions] shall mingle themselves with the seed of men [the state/iron governments]: but they shall not cleave one to another [for long], even as iron is not [naturally] mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings [the ten toes] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed [the second mountain]: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it [as a stone to start with] shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever [by filling the earth].

The first mountain is sometimes called Mt Sion - the heavenly kingdom. Hebrews 12:22.

45 Forasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands [God’s way], and that it broke in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold [all of Satan’s systems]; the great God has made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter:

and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

If you have this scenario clear in your mind then we can look at Revelation chapter 17.

See you next time,



P.S. Here are four aspects of church to think about:-

1. God the only plan-maker in a church with power for good.

2. Men take a share in the plan making - a church with little power.

3. Men alone rule the church- there is no power in such an arrangement.

4. Men rule the church and state. This gives the power of the sword to it.


On to Conversation #016

To the reader,

If there is anything not clear to you as you read my answer, please feel free to mail me and ask about it. I promise not to send you anything but a direct answer to your question. I won't argue about it, just share with you what I have seen.

I won't ask you to join a new church or offshoot either!

Click here to contact me.

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